Umberto Eco
A Conversation on Information (episode 4)


PETRU RUSSU AND UMBERTO ECO, MILANO '89

(continued from the previous number)

It is a community but it is only a virtual community. Now, it is true that great artists spend their lives living in remote villages and writing letters all over the world and they establish these kinds of virtual communities.


“Kant did that as well - he was a great letter writer...?”
Yes, there was Kant. But I think of a great poet like Leopardi. He was sick, a hunchback. Repressed. Lived in a village. Went once or twice to Rome. I don’t remember how often, though he traveled a little more.He was well known, and in touch with all the intelligentsia of his time. OK, it’s always possible. But for every Leopardi, you have a lot of other people that are living in isolation, with elaborate forms of mental illness.One great problem of our time is the decrease, or absolute lack, of face-to-face communities.I always like to tell the story of Bosco - San Giovanni Bosco. This Salesian priest in the middle of the19th century who got the idea that was a whole new generation of young people who were working from a very young age in factories, and so were dispersed and separated from the family. He invented the oratorium, which was a community, to which those who worked could go to play and discuss. And for those who couldn’t work, he established typographies, activities in which they could take part. So, he was matching the problem of despair and isolation in the industrial society with the possibility of people meeting each other, and obviously also having a religious purpose. It was a great social invention.What I reproach today; with both Catholics, as well as former Communists or Progressives, is that they lacked the new don Bosco. There was no new San Giovanni Bosco of our age able to invent a new possibility of establishing communities. And so you have young disaffected males with guns killing people in Central Park. You have all the problems of young people...“The pathologies, yes...”
Also of mature and aged persons who feel isolated. Was, is, television a way to overcome this solitude? No, it was a way to increase it. With your can of beer you sit down on the couch...Television was not the solution.Obviously for certain people - I had an old aunt who was obliged to live all the day at home, and was unable to walk, and for her the television was a gift of heaven. For her, it was really the only possibility to be in some way in touch with the world. But for a normal person it is not. Can the new virtual communities like we have on Internet do the same job? Certainly! They give to a person living in the Mid-West the possibility to contact others from there. Is that a substitute for face-to-face contact and community? No, it isn’t! So the real social function of, let’s say, Internet, should be to be a starting point for establishing contacts, and then to establish local...


“Places to meet face-to-face...”
Yes, local communities. When Internet really becomes a way of implementing - through virtual communities - face-to-face communities, then that will be an important social change. I was talking with Professor Prodi [note: Romano Prodi is professor of economics at the University of Bologna, and prospective prime- ministerial candidate for a coalition of centre-left moderates in the next Italian general election] and I told him that the only possibility that you have to make a real campaign, is to realize in every city a group, a club, a circle. One of the real forces in the inventions of Berlusconi was not only to use television for political propaganda. He, having a big industrial organisation, established clubs everywhere.This was people that were proud to wear the badge and to identify themselves as belonging to a particular group. I saw them in the village where I have my country house. It was artificial. It was all set up in two months, so it wasn’t enough to establish a really profound sense of belonging to a community. But it was an idea.So I told Prodi that he should do the same. And one way to do that is to use Internet. Because through Internet you can reach, say, two persons in every city, giving them materials, documents. People will be encouraged to xerox all these materials and to establish local groups, networks. So it is a sort of collaboration between virtual and...


“Real communities?...”
...and real communities. If we succeed in doing that then Internet will be an enormous element or factor of social change. If it remains only virtual it could lead some people to pure onanistic solitude. In this sense, most of the hackers are sick persons, because they sit passive. They play and intrude into the computers of the banks or the Pentagon, because it is the only way to feel alive.


“You have just released a new hypertext encyclopaedia. In an article you published recently in the local paper in Bologna, La Republicca, you write that this work will contain more information than the Encyclopaedia Britannica. There you also wrote that the main advantage of your Encyclomedia is its non-linear retrieval and cross-referencing system. I always wonder about the effectiveness of hypertext systems in general, because someone has to make the links. So even though you call it non-linear retrieval, or whatever, it is all decided by somebody in advance?”
Well, first of all: if you are able tomorrow to invent a hypertext in which every idea and every word, every adjective, every article can be linked with everything. OK, at this point it is obvious that even there, there is a filter which establishes the links. In this sense it will be very difficult to make a philosophical hypertext, because you will have to decide if you will link the notion of passion in Descartes with the notion of passion in Aristotle, which are two different notions...


“Yes, completely different.”
For Aristotle it is simply a cognitive event, and for Descartes, and for the 17th century passion has to do with feeling, sentiment etcetera. But in the case of our Encyclomedia, which was based on historical data, you have a certain guarantee. The name of a city is linked to other cities. The name of a given person links with persons which had connections with them. And you also can establish unforeseen links...


“The users can make their own links?”
Yes, because you have, let’s say, so-called books and files. There’s for instance a book on Descartes, and obviously in the book on Descartes you will certainly mention, let’s say Pascal, or Gallileo. There are some immediate links, because Gallileo and Pascal are highlighted, and so you can immediately identify the possibility of there being links there. There is no pre-established link between Descartes and Caravaggio. Why? Because they had nothing in common except he fact that they lived in the same century. But I wanted to solve, or to answer this question: “Was it possible that Descartes met Caravaggio?” Descartes travelled pretty much. So, I have a function that allows me to ask about Descartes AND/OR Caravaggio, and I found I had the possibility of detecting that that meeting was impossible, because Caravaggio died when Descartes was 14. So, I established my own links.

(to be continued)

©World Of Art magazine

 
 
 
 
 
 
A chain-smoking and jovial Umberto Eco receives me in his crowded, untidy but cheerful little office at the Institute for Communication Studies at the University of Bologna. A bay-window opens out onto a tiny balcony overlooking the garden of the villa where the institute has its offices and library. The walls of the office are covered with rows of well-filled bookshelves; a sofa along one wall is full of piles of papers, books and articles, a modest writing desk hidden under even more books and papers. In one corner of the room is an IBM 486 clone with Windows, a new article or book obviously in progress on the screen. Eco offers me a chair in front of his desk.In advance I had given him a list of some possible issues we might discuss so he would have some idea of what was on my mind: Computer Technology, the Internet Community and Processes of Cultural Change. I begin by asking: (Patrick Coppock)
 


Umberto Eco was born in 1932 in Alessandria, Italy.
He is a professor of semiotics, the study of communication through signs and symbols, at the University of Bologna, a philosopher, a historian, literary critic, and an aesthetician. He is an avid book collector and owns more than 30,000 volumes. The subjects of his scholarly investigations range from St. Thomas Aquinas, to James Joyce, to Superman. He lives in Milan.
 


The following is an extensive listing of the works of Eco:

The Island of the Day Before (1995).
Postscript to The Name of the Rose (1995).
The Search for the Perfect Language (1995).
How to Travel with a Salmon and Other Essays (1994).
Apocalypse Postponed (1994).
Six Walks In the Fictional Woods (1994),
Misreading (1993).
Interpretation and Overinterpretation (1992).
Travels In Hyperreality (1990).
The Limits of Interpretation (1990).
Foucault’s Pendulum (1989).
On the Medieval Theory of Signs (1989).
The Aesthetics of Chaomos: The Middle Ages of James Joyce (1989).
The Open Work (1989).
The Bomb and the General (1989).
The Three Astronauts (1989).
Meaning and Mental Representations (1988).
The Aesthetics of Thomas Aquinas (1988).
Art and Beauty in the Middle Ages (1988).
Leonardo Cremonini: Paintings and Watercolors 1976-1986 (1987).
Semiotics and the Philosophy of Language (1984).
The Sign of Three: Dupin, Holmes, Peirce (1984).
Postscript to The Name of the Rose (1983).
The Name of the Rose (1983).
The Role of the Reader: Explorations in the Semiotics of Text (1979).
The Theory of Semiotics (1976)